The Scripted Podcast: Content Writing in Broadcast Journalism with guest Alexandra Carter

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The Scripted Podcast: Season 3 Ep. 3: Content Writing in Broadcast Journalism with guest Alexandra Carter

Transcript:

Alexandra [00:00:00]: Struggling with all those other sites. It's like, “This is just not going to work.” And so I saw on Scripted, “Oh, wow, okay, this seems like they actually want to pay writers what they deserve.”

Kevin [00:00:12]: We're gonna slap that answer onto a commercial or something.

John [00:00:16]: That’s about as good as it gets, yeah. Hello, and welcome to the Scripted Podcast. My name is John, and I am joined by...

Kevin [00:00:45]: Kevin. Are we just going with first names now?

John [00:00:47]: No titles now, yeah, yeah. John and Kevin in the morning. So tell us a little bit about what we're talking about this week.

Kevin [00:00:59]: Today we are talking about content writing in broadcast journalism.

John [00:01:04]: Okay. So like the six o'clock news?

Kevin [00:01:09]: Yeah, what goes on behind the scenes to get that show up? And what kind of content writing needs to be done to do so?

John [00:01:19]: Yeah, I've actually always kind of wondered a little bit about what that process is like. It's weird that newscasters are kind of like these local celebrities. And Kevin and I are actually both from Philadelphia, home of Action News. 

Kevin [00:01:36]: That’s right. Jim Gardner. 

John [00:01:38]: Yeah, which is the OG of that news format, I believe. I think they invented that. That kind of cliched news format that we all know now started there. Yeah. Jim Gardner. And that crew - Cecily Tynan.

Kevin [00:01:54]: Cecily Tynan. Shoutout to the Action News Philly crew if you’re listening.

John [00:01:58]: Yeah, for real. But we don't have Action News joining us today. Who do we have today, Kevin?

Kevin [00:02:05]: Today we have Alexandra Carter. You may have seen her or seen some of her work at NBC News, New York Daily News, Adweek, the Center for American Progress, and countless other news organizations. She worked as a broadcaster, and now is a freelance writer and Scripted writer.

John [00:02:27]: Yeah, and a damn good one, too. I think this is definitely gonna be exciting.

Kevin [00:02:32]: Yeah, she's gonna tell us about the news business and the freelance writing business, and what it's like to make the move from broadcast news to freelance writing and how those skills overlap.

John [00:02:45]: Yeah, let's jump into it.

Kevin [00:02:46]: Welcome to the show, Alexandra.

Alexandra [00:02:48]: Hi. Thank you for having me.

John [00:02:50]: Yeah, we're thrilled to have you. So tell us a little bit about your professional experience. Obviously, we have a lot of questions but I'd love for you to intro us a bit to everything.

Alexandra [00:03:01]: Yeah, so I have about eight years of experience working as a TV reporter and anchor, so in local TV news. So my mom was actually a sports reporter and anchor so I grew up obviously watching her on TV and getting to go to some live shots and ride in the live truck with her. So kind of getting a little bit of a glimpse inside of that TV world. And so that's kind of what gave me the bug that that's what I wanted to do. So I went up a traditional path. I majored in journalism in college and then, as you have to do taking that first TV job, you just move wherever, wherever there's a job. So my first market was Sherman, Texas, which I had never heard of. And I was there. Then I went to Longview, Texas, another place I hadn't heard of. Then I went to Huntsville, Alabama. And then most recently, Quincy, Illinois, another place I hadn't heard of. So that's kind of the nature of the beast is just moving wherever.

Kevin [00:04:11]: Right. And where did you come from originally?

Alexandra [00:04:15]: So I was born in Germany. But my family moved to Canada when I was a baby. So I don't remember Germany. And then we moved down to Atlanta when I was in middle school. So I have just been all over. It's like the hardest question for me to answer is where I’m from.

John [00:04:35]: So when you got started in journalism, did you have to learn how to do the whole broadcast voice and everything?

Alexandra [00:04:43]: Well, I did. I mean, they don't really tell you... They actually tell you the opposite, that you're not actually supposed to have one of those voices. You're supposed to just kind of talk like as if you're talking to a friend. But I mean, I definitely had one on. And in my first market I did it and it totally didn't even sound like me. And they were like, “Yeah, you should maybe cut that back a little bit.’ I’m like, “Okay.’ So yeah, they want you to just be a little more authentic. But it's funny in those first jobs kind of the lengths we go.

John [00:05:20]: Oh, I'm sure, yeah. So what kind of stories have you covered in the course of your career?

Alexandra [00:05:26]: Yeah. So I mean, working in four markets for about eight years, I've covered a ton of stories, everything from local road repairs and closures to local politics. I actually got to meet Joe Biden on the 2020 campaign trail. Yeah, he did a campaign stop in one of our areas, so that was cool. Our station - we covered three states. So that was great. I enjoy politics. So I got to cover an inauguration in Iowa. And then Illinois always has tons going on politically. So lots of stories there. And Missouri as well. So that was a really cool experience, for sure.

Kevin [00:06:11]: Yeah, I bet. So I wanted to ask you really an inside baseball kind of question of, can you take us through the process of a new story, of a given news story, how you start with a pitch and then end up with a broadcast? 

Alexandra [00:06:28]: Yeah. So, yes, you do start with a pitch. Typically, if you're a reporter, you're expected to come in with three pitches a day. So that usually require some research before you even get to work. So you have your pitches, and then you're pitching to the anchors, other reporters are in there, and then some producers and stuff. So those are the people who kind of have the say over what you pitch, what they're actually going to have you follow up on. So then, once that's all hammered out, you just have to start making calls, finding people who are going to go on camera with you, which is often the hardest part. I think that’s a big disadvantage over print journalism because you can have someone on the phone, they're like, “Oh, yeah, yeah.” And then they're like, “Oh, on camera?” And then they don't want to do the interview. And of course, for TV, you have to have someone on camera. Also, we tend to work funky shifts. So if you're trying to turn a story for the five o'clock news, you probably wouldn't get into work till 2pm. So you're calling at three. A lot of people who work nine to fives are done with the day at that point. So, very challenging to knock down those interviews. And then once that's done, you go and interview them. And these days, most reporters are one-man bands. So there's no cameraman. No editor. It is just you doing everything. So you go shoot it yourself, then you edit it yourself, and then you get ready to present it live. 

John [00:08:05]: Really? Wow.

Kevin [00:08:06]: So when does the pitch happen? At what time of the day?

Alexandra [00:08:10]: If you're doing the five, the six, and the 10, that's called the night-side shift, you get in at two, the meeting’s typically at 2:15.

Kevin [00:08:20]: 2:15am?

Alexandra [00:08:21]: Pm.

Kevin [00:08:22]: All right. Okay, so the pitch happens at 2:15, you're making calls at three. And then you have the interview shot, edited, and ready to go live by five?

Alexandra [00:08:36]: By five. Yeah, I mean, six if you're lucky. But, yeah, it's crazy. And you’re by yourself.

Kevin [00:08:42]: Yeah, that's incredible. Do they even provide a van anymore?

Alexandra [00:08:47]: You get like a CRB or something. Sometimes if you're doing like a big story, you may have a cameraman with you. When you go live, some stations do send a cameraman and a truck for that. But then some don't. Some reporters are going live by themselves in the middle of a crime scene at 5am.

John [00:09:10]: Oh, my God.

Kevin [00:09:10]: What kind of camera are you guys working with?

Alexandra [00:09:13]: Oh, gosh, it was a Sony something. I don't know.

Kevin [00:09:17]: So are you dealing with a camera, a lapel mic, and a laptop?

Alexandra [00:09:24]: Yeah, yeah. And then you’ve got your station car. And we use these little backpacks that was like TVU. It enabled us to go live without a truck or anything.

Kevin [00:09:37]: Wow.

John [00:09:38]: What? When did this happen?

Alexandra [00:09:41]: I know it's crazy. It's been like that since I started. I started in 2012. And it wasn't really a surprise. In college, they were like, “This is how the industry is going.” 

John [00:09:54]: Wow. Okay, man. Yeah, I guess I've been asleep. I thought it was still the old classic. I have a very 90s perception of...

Kevin [00:10:02]: I knew it was gonna have to be a quick turnaround, right, for nightly news. That's an incredibly quick turnaround. I thought you'd be in super early in the morning to get a story going by...

Alexandra [00:10:16]: Yeah, no, that would be for the morning show. Which is a whole other crazy shift in itself.

Kevin [00:10:24]: How often does a morning show segment maybe not get done in time and end up on the night?

Alexandra [00:10:34]: I worked in mornings for about two years. And it doesn't usually happen like that. It would be more so like, breaking news happens. Say you're doing a story on a community picnic today. And then breaking news happens. So what they're gonna do is they'll probably cut that picnic story, and save that for the five o'clock show or a lighter show so that they can hit the breaking news as many times as possible.

Kevin [00:11:03]: And is there a huge failure to success rate? Do you guys send out a ton of stories on a day and hope to get enough back for a 5pm show?

Alexandra [00:11:14]: Yes. Especially in a smaller market. So if you're in New York, there's stuff happening, there's no shortage of content. But, a smaller place, like most of the places I've worked, it can be really hard to even come up with like one story idea for the meeting, let alone three. And then you have got to find people to go on camera. So yeah, I mean, it's definitely a very anxiety-ridden process just because you're not going in knowing what to expect every day.

John [00:11:47]: Yeah, it's got to be way harder in small towns. After a certain point, the whole village has been on the show at this point. 

Alexandra [00:11:54]: Yeah. Exactly. 

John [00:11:57]: So how important was writing in this entire process? You'd get these pitches. Were you putting everything together and scripting it before you go live? Tell us a bit about that process.

Alexandra [00:12:10]: Yeah, so writing is extremely important. Even going back to college, I took a lot of writing classes, learning AP and news-style writing. And then something that I think people may not realize about how important writing is for TV is that you have to be able to read what you wrote. If you jot things down with misspellings or bad grammar, and then you try to read that on air, that's really not going to look so good. 

Kevin [00:12:43]: I imagine this process, which sounds hectic, and a difficult thing to learn, has really helped you in your writing career, right? 

Alexandra [00:12:51]: Yeah. 

Kevin [00:12:52]: So from start to finish from a pitch to a news story or a pitch to a written story, how similar are those skill sets? And how much has that helped you, I guess, on both sides?

Alexandra [00:13:06]: Yeah. It's definitely helped a lot. I know, like, one of the first things I noticed about this Scripted platform was there's a lot of options to pitch blog ideas to companies. And that was totally just a seamless transition for me. And I think I am able to come up with pitches that maybe other people, if they haven't worked in news, wouldn’t think of. For instance, I remember, “Oh, it's 4th of July - time for a food safety story.” Like we would do those stories every year. So now I'm like, “Okay, there's a client I can pitch this to.” So yeah, it’s been very helpful.

Kevin [00:13:45]: It is funny how the parallels between working for a brand and delivering the news, but maybe that has to do with the branding of our news over the last 30 years.

John [00:13:59]: Interesting. You've really climbed rather quickly as a writer on Scripted. What made you go into the transition of freelance writing? I mean, based on what we've talked about so far, it actually seems like it's almost fairly seamless, based on your previous experience, but what made you make that choice personally?

Alexandra [00:14:20]: Yeah, so I got really lucky with how it all worked out. So I knew that I was pretty much done with working in TV news. The newness had kind of worn away after a few years and you have different goals in life. I just wanted to not have to worry that I was gonna have to work Christmas or have a normal schedule. Like I was like, “Oh, my god, all I want is just to get off work at 5pm.” So I just knew that I was just ready for something different. And so before I left - because I ended up leaving end of February 2020. So really a horrible time to be looking for a job. And I think I had applied for Scripted, I don't even really remember it. I must have applied while I was still working in TV, kind of preparing for that transition. And then right when I had left and kind of realized like, “You can't really look for a job at all right now.” Like March 2020. Nobody knows what they're doing. And then I ended up getting the approval letter from Scripted. And so I was like, “Okay, let's check this out.” And I noticed right away that... I think there are a lot of sites out there that really want to pay writers like one cent per word, or just like horrible rates. And so I was struggling with all those other sites. It's like, this is just not going to work. And so I saw on Scripted, “Oh, wow, okay, this seems like they actually want to pay writers what they deserve.” So I was excited to try it out. And, yeah, I've really loved it. The platform, the support. Yeah, it's been great. And now I could not see myself going back to an office. It's great to kind of work so independently and work from wherever.

Kevin [00:16:18]: We're gonna slap that answer on to a commercial something.

John [00:16:23]: That’s about as good as it gets. Yeah.

Kevin [00:16:25]: Can you tell us a little bit about the work you've done on Scripted? I mean, without naming any brands, specifically, that you've worked with. Like, what kind of writing have you been able to do? And how was that transfer from news to brand writing?

Alexandra [00:16:37]: Yeah, so I've done a lot of different types of writing, which I would say my favorite thing about working in the news was just getting to learn so much. You really stay on top of current events, tax hikes in the city, just a lot of information. And that I found with freelance writing, when you diversify what you write about, is the same thing. So I really enjoy that it's different topics. So, for instance, when I came into Scripted, I didn't really know much about SEO. I remember I took an SEO course, but I didn't know much. Now, I've written so much about SEO that I find myself judging people's websites, I'm like, “Oh, dot net?” Or like, “Oh, no blog posts.” So it's funny, and it's great because SEO is an important thing to know about. So I do really like that variety. And I enjoyed legal writing, too. As a journalist, I sat through a lot of court cases and court hearings. And so I got some good experience breaking down kind of more complicated cases and laws and stuff. So that's translated perfectly as well.

John [00:17:58]: Interesting. Yeah, usually we ask, when we do have writers onto the show, a bit about how they progressed on the platform. Your story actually just seems really seamless, and it makes a lot of sense here. I was curious myself. I manage the writers at Scripted. And, of course, we took note pretty early that you were really just kind of killing it. And this makes perfect sense. What kind of advice would you give to writers who are out there who are who are kind of looking to duplicate that success and trying to diversify the type of topics they write about, or keep the well of ideas that they have filled?

Alexandra [00:18:43]: Yeah, so I think definitely, in the beginning, you need to really just take what you can, what jobs that you can because you got to put in a little bit of work before you can get to these platforms that pay better, or better paying jobs. But it's so important to build up your portfolio. So in the beginning, just take what you can so you can build that portfolio up. And then you can start progressing. but I think the portfolio is really important. And just having different types of work, types of clients, in that portfolio. Also, read a lot. It's so interesting now I'll read like a New York Times article, and I'll be like, “Oh, wow, they said that. That's so cool.” And I have like a note on my phone that's terms. And so I just write down these different terms that I can use in my writing. So, yeah, just reading, seeing how other writers are writing, and just reading so that you can stay on top of trends and news because that's really important too.

John [00:19:55]: Yeah, totally. It's super important to keep reading and, of course, improving on your craft.

Kevin [00:20:01]: Can you tell us about your work with Adweek through Scripted? I know you've been doing a lot of publishing over there.

Alexandra [00:20:08]: Yeah, yeah. That is one that I'm so excited about. So I knew about Adweek. Well, they have a sister site called TVSpy. It's kind of like, where journalists go for their gossip a little bit. Not gossip but it talks about industry moves. So it'll be like, “Oh, so and so jumped a 100 market, got hired in Buffalo, New York.” So you just keep an eye on it. So I had seen some Adweek stories just kind of from being on that website. And, yeah, I remember one of the project managers at Scripted. They asked if I would want to work on that. And I was like, “Okay, yeah. I mean, this is great.” I was so overwhelmed with the first one. I was like, “Oh, my gosh, I don't really know much about advertising.” And it took me a really long time to do. But I kept taking them because, like I was saying in my advice, “Just try keep trying, do different things”. And now I, I look forward to getting those and I'm faster at them. And it's really cool to see myself right in those different terms that I never would have learned before that. And so what I do mostly for them is watch one of their webinars and write about it. So it's really like reporting, because I'm taking quotes from the webinars and kind of filling in the backstory. So, yeah, it really is really similar to reporting. 

John [00:21:43]: Do you think you'll ever make a return to broadcast journalism or traditional journalism?

Alexandra [00:21:48]: I don't, no. Especially now after having so much freedom. I think it would be so hard to go back. Just even with my appearance, or what I'm wearing or being recognized out in public, it can be hard sometimes. You feel like people are always watching you, judging you. And, yeah, now it's kind of nice to just take a step back. And I just enjoy the freedom of making my own schedule, for sure.

John [00:22:24]: Yeah, and not having to move 100 times.

Alexandra [00:22:29]: Yes, that too. And, yeah, not having to work until 12 midnight, or, gosh, one of my jobs, I would produce the weekend morning show. So for two years, every Friday and Saturday, I went in at 11:30pm. And I worked all through the night.

Kevin [00:22:49]: Oh, God.

Alexandra [00:22:52]: On Friday and Saturday too. I mean, it was, yeah... So yeah, I cannot see myself going back to that.

John [00:22:59]: Well, and also the combination of working those kind of hours and having to look TV-ready is a bit hard-pressed.

Alexandra [00:23:07]: It's really hard. And people always told me, “Your body will adjust to the schedule and no - it did not.” Your body knows.

Kevin [00:23:16]: That’s what they say that about parenting. And I've found that still is very, very much a struggle to not sleep.

Alexandra [00:23:24]: Your body knows.

Kevin [00:23:26]: Yeah. So I actually want to ask you about a news story real quickly to see what your thoughts were on the Andrew Cuomo and Chris Cuomo situation. What did you think about the handling of that through CNN? And do you think he should still be on the air? Do you think he made a giant mistake? What's your take?

Alexandra [00:23:46]: Yeah, I was pretty shocked. I think it's pretty much Journalism 101, what he did, and I think when he came back from his vacation, he tried to say that it's their policy to not talk about it. But when you're not talking about it, it really makes it look like a cover-up. So I think they probably should have taken him off and gotten a replacement, especially in today's climate, where the news media is really under fire. So that does not help their credibility or trying to build back that reputation. Yeah, I was really shocked by it.

Kevin [00:24:26]: Yeah, that and the just disastrous handling of the COVID era too where they brought him on every day to talk to his brother and make him like this huge star in relation to COVID. And he was doing a horrible job. And he also was doing horrible things behind the scenes. 

Alexandra [00:24:44]: Yeah, yeah, two very significant stories. And, yeah, they're kind of just brushing them under the rug. So I was very, very surprised.

John [00:24:53]: Did you find yourself on the receiving end on the sort of local news kind of sector of things of this sort of anti-journalism mindset that's starting to kind of take hold?

Alexandra [00:25:06]: Yeah, a little bit. Mostly on social media. People would just send me tweets or definitely fake news was becoming a buzzword when I got to my last station. So, yeah, you can definitely tell that there's a switch. And especially with social media, people can write what they want, and convince their friends that what they're saying is right, and so they can just spin narratives. And, yeah, it's definitely a very crazy time to be in the news.

John [00:25:40]: I'm sure you can throw that on the pile of reasons not to return to broadcast journalism.

Alexandra [00:25:44]: Yeah, there we go.

Kevin [00:25:45]: Especially your experiences in small-town Texas. I imagine there's a little bit of a pushback on the journalists.

Alexandra [00:25:52]: Yeah, yeah. I know. I can't imagine what happened after I left. I'm sure it was crazy.

John [00:26:00]: So I have to ask, has anything ever happened to you while you were live that didn't end up making the cut?

Kevin [00:26:09]: Yeah, like a bug flying in your mouth and freaking out?

Alexandra [00:26:12]: I did have a bug flying around my hair one day. But, no, like the show must go on when you're live. So I just kind of... Yeah, I mean, it was right there. I stopped using that kind of hairspray after that. It was attracted to it. But, no, I never really had anything too crazy. I had the hiccups once, which was horrible. I just kind of made my co anchor. I was like, “You’ve got to read this.” That was pretty rough.

John [00:26:46]: That's good to hear. I actually can I admit that I do spend time maybe once or twice a year watching news bloopers on YouTube. Yeah, I was hoping I wouldn't eventually find you on there.

Alexandra [00:26:58]: Yeah, I don't think so. Well, I dropped my laptop once. But I caught it. That’s about as crazy as it got. Yeah.

John [00:27:06]: Yeah, that actually sounds great to have footage of that. Well, thank you so much for joining us on this session. And you're a great writer and Scripted’s thrilled to have you on. And, yeah, thanks again for joining us on this episode. 

Alexandra [00:27:22]: Yeah, thank you guys so much. 

John [00:27:24]: And before we let you go, is there anything you're currently working on that you'd like to plug or let us know about?

Alexandra [00:27:27]: No, not really. Just that I'm available. Check out my Scripted profile. And, yeah, very happy to be working with you guys.

John [00:27:38]: Awesome. Well, thanks again, so much. 

Kevin [00:27:40]: Thanks so much. 

Alexandra [00:27:41]: All right. Thank you. 

John [00:27:43]: All right. 

Alexandra [00:27:44]: Bye.

John [00:22:56]: All right, so that was definitely interesting. I had no idea that newscasters were working on those kinds of deadlines.

Kevin [00:28:08]: Yeah, me either. Like I said, I thought maybe there was a really early morning pitch. And to get a news story by five is crazy. And they start at - what was it? What did she say? Two? 2:30?

John [00:28:23]: Yeah. You're coming in, you go to a meeting, already have your pitches and then you got to get on the phone. And then you have to go out on the scene is like, yeah... I hadn't considered that. I definitely thought it was a different thing. And, also, I was blown away by the fact that most newscasters now are completely solo.

Kevin [00:28:45]: Yeah, that was surprising. I thought they'd have a little more support system than that. But I guess that is the way of the world now, right? You just see, instead of a whole news crew on the side of the road, it's it's one reporter and what - their iPhone?

John [00:29:01]: Yeah, yeah, and I guess it makes sense. It's just I guess we grew up in that era of the news vans and the choppers and...

Kevin [00:29:01]: What happened all that stuff? It’s just junked?

John [00:29:19]: I guess so. Yeah. Right, exactly. She mentioned that they give them a vehicle. But I guess that's also way more cost effective than getting helicopter fuel.

Kevin [00:29:29]: Yeah, I can understand how that environment can be a stressful one and one that maybe you want to leave for something that where maybe you create your own hours or you're not up in the middle of the night trying to put together a story that might not happen.

John [00:29:47]: Something we didn’t even touch on. I talked a little bit to her about how it's got to be weird because you're... I think she had mentioned that people recognize her from time to time in those smaller towns and stuff. And it's almost worse because it's one of those situations where, if you see Tom Cruise over at Chili's, you're probably not going to approach the table. But if it's your local newscaster, I feel like people have this sort of like familiarity with them because they're in their living rooms every day. So, no, I'm not envious of that job. 

Kevin [00:30:27]: Yeah. And I feel like the newer era is that the attention they get is almost always negative. But if you're Jim Gardner, he probably gets free steak still in every restaurant in Philadelphia. Yeah, but this whole new crew of journalists are dealing with the negative landscape of people just wanting to assault verbally journalists, they don’t trust journalists, wherever they get their information. You don't know where people are coming from when they're gonna approach you like that.

John [00:31:03]: Yeah, well, and also too. Her work ethic really kind of brings to light something that we're always hammering home just about the importance of deadlines anyway. To be able to work under those kinds of deadlines. That's the extreme. But for freelance writers, deadlines are really kind of the only law of the land, you know what I mean? So if you don't make them… You're in control of your own career here. That's the difference. If you don't show up for the news meeting and you don't show up with the pitches, they're probably going to can you, but if you're a freelance writer, the only person you're going to hurt is yourself.

Kevin [00:31:42]: Yeah. And you can tell that she had been put through the fire by the way she works on Scripted. You can tell she knows how important deadlines are and how hard you have to work to turn things around for your employer and make sure that you're a consistent contributor, right? I think coming from that journalism and that breakneck speed background has has really helped her thrive as a freelance writer.

John [00:32:06]: Well, and also how she had talked about the way that it kind of helped her approach to pitches right? because there's sort of an immediate crossover there. But I'm just kind of pitching this out, but we maybe will reach out to Alexandra and have her write a little something about some great ways to pitch because that's so true. There are so many different ways to approach things. And if you know the language, like she was saying, if you understand what it is that people are expecting from content, and what the trends are, and what the current blogosphere is taking their approach to things, you can kind of come up with an infinite well of ideas. So I hadn't actually considered that. And of course, her job provided a lot of training. But, yeah, I think that once you have an idea of what is expected in the current landscape, it becomes a lot easier to create pitches and a lot easier to create quality content for your clients.

Kevin [00:33:13]: Yeah. And you can be a very skilled writer and just not have that particular skill set, right? That pitching set. That's something that you need to learn as well.

John [00:33:22]: I think it can be trained is the good thing, right? It's not like Alexandra came in here just like, “Yeah, man, just born with it.”

Kevin [00:33:31]: Got that pitching gene.

John [00:33:32]: Yeah, there's no pitching genes. But, no, super, super exciting episode. And, for all of you listening, please if you have a moment, like us on your preferred platform, and feel free to share, and please join us next time on the Scripted Podcast.

Kevin [00:33:53]: We'll see you next time.